{"id":4899,"date":"2024-09-14T09:15:43","date_gmt":"2024-09-14T14:15:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/?p=4899"},"modified":"2024-09-14T09:15:43","modified_gmt":"2024-09-14T14:15:43","slug":"almagest-book-xi-saturns-epoch-position","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/2024\/09\/almagest-book-xi-saturns-epoch-position\/","title":{"rendered":"Almagest Book XI: Saturn&#8217;s Epoch Position"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Our next step is to determine the epoch position for Saturn.<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>The procedure should be pretty familiar by now. We&#8217;ll determine the interval of time, look up the accumulated motions in the mean motion tables, and apply them to the positions from the observation <a href=\"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/2024\/09\/almagest-book-xi-saturns-periodic-motion\/\">in our last post<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Ptolemy gives the interval of time between the beginning of his epoch and the ancient observation from our last post as $518$ Egyptian years, $133 \\frac{1}{4}$ days.<\/p>\n<p>Taking this to the Planetary mean motion tables, I find an increase in longitude of 216;08,26\u00ba. Toomer notes that Ptolemy&#8217;s value has some uncertainty to it. Many of the Greek manuscripts have $216\u00ba$ or $216;00\u00ba$. However, some have $216;09\u00ba$ which would be consistent with how Ptolemy tends to round. However, Toomer takes Ptolemy to have meant $216;10\u00ba$ as this is the value implied by a calculation we&#8217;ll do shortly.<\/p>\n<p>Turning to the anomaly, I find an increase of $149;15,26\u00ba$ which is consistent with Ptolemy&#8217;s value of $149;15\u00ba.$<\/p>\n<p>These now get subtracted from the positions from the Babylonian astronomers observation. As a reminder, in the last post, we determined that Saturn was $2;53\u00ba$ into Virgo, and $183;17\u00ba$ about its epicycle from the apogee of the epicycle.<\/p>\n<p>Thus, for longitude, if we subtract using the value of $216;10\u00ba$ that Toomer proposes, I find that Saturn would have been $26;43\u00ba$ into Capricorn which is the value Ptolemy gives and is found in all manuscripts, affirming that Toomer&#8217;s value for the increase in longitude over this interval is likely what Ptolemy intended, even if it is a bit rounded.<\/p>\n<p>For the anomaly, I find that Saturn would have been $34;02\u00ba$ about its epicycle from apogee.<\/p>\n<p>Lastly, we can also ask about the epoch position of apogee. As we established <a href=\"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/2024\/09\/almagest-book-xi-saturns-periodic-motion\/\">in the last post<\/a>, at the time of the Babylonian observation, apogee would have been located $19 \\frac{1}{3}\u00ba$ into Virgo. We then take a rate of $1\u00ba$ per century for the precession over the interval between epoch and this date to find it would have increased its position by $5;11\u00ba$. this would put the epoch position of apogee $14;09\u00ba$ into Virgo. However, Ptolemy comes up with $14;10\u00ba$ indicating he may have done some rounding, likely on the increase over this interval.<\/p>\n<p>And that&#8217;s it for the series of steps that we effectively repeat for the superior planets. In the next post, we&#8217;ll explore how to calculate the true position from the periodic motions.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/Almagest-Progress-20240914.png?ssl=1\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-4900\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/Almagest-Progress-20240914.png?resize=300%2C141&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"141\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/Almagest-Progress-20240914.png?resize=300%2C141&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/Almagest-Progress-20240914.png?resize=1024%2C481&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/Almagest-Progress-20240914.png?resize=768%2C361&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/Almagest-Progress-20240914.png?resize=1536%2C721&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/Almagest-Progress-20240914.png?w=1908&amp;ssl=1 1908w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Our next step is to determine the epoch position for Saturn.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[24],"tags":[25,75,14,51],"class_list":["post-4899","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-almagest","tag-almagest","tag-epoch","tag-ptolemy","tag-saturn"],"acf":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p9ZpvC-1h1","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4899","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4899"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4899\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4901,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4899\/revisions\/4901"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4899"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4899"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4899"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}