{"id":3932,"date":"2023-04-22T15:43:55","date_gmt":"2023-04-22T20:43:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/?p=3932"},"modified":"2023-04-22T15:43:55","modified_gmt":"2023-04-22T20:43:55","slug":"almagest-book-viii-on-simultaneous-risings-settings-of-the-fixed-stars","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/2023\/04\/almagest-book-viii-on-simultaneous-risings-settings-of-the-fixed-stars\/","title":{"rendered":"Almagest Book VIII: On Simultaneous Risings &#038; Settings of the Fixed Stars"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In the last post, we looked at how Menelaus&#8217; theorem could be used to tell us which point on the ecliptic would culminate with a star. In this post, we&#8217;ll do something similar, but instead look at<\/p>\n<p>the points on the equator and ecliptic which rise or set simultaneously with a fixed star.<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>To do so, Ptolemy stars with the following diagram:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-2v3.jpg?ssl=1\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3943\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-2v3.jpg?resize=300%2C288&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"288\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-2v3.jpg?resize=300%2C288&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-2v3.jpg?resize=1024%2C984&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-2v3.jpg?resize=768%2C738&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-2v3.jpg?resize=1536%2C1475&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-2v3.jpg?resize=2048%2C1967&amp;ssl=1 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>In this diagram, circle $ABGD$ is now the meridian and circle $AEG$ the celestial equator with $Z$ as one of its poles.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ll let circle $BED$ be the horizon with a star on it at point $H$.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ll then draw a great circle through the star and the celestial poles intersecting the celestial equator at point $\\Theta$.<\/p>\n<p>Lastly, we&#8217;ll draw in point $K$ which is equidistant as $E$ from $\\Theta$.<\/p>\n<p>Again, what we&#8217;re wanting to understand here is what point on the celestial equator is on the horizon at the same time as $H$, which would be $E$.<\/p>\n<p>As in the previous post, we&#8217;ll use a Menelaus configuration which I&#8217;ve already highlighted:<\/p>\n<p>$$\\frac{Crd \\; arc \\; 2ZB}{Crd \\; arc \\; 2BA} = \\frac{Crd \\; arc \\; 2ZH}{Crd \\; arc \\; 2H \\Theta} \\cdot \\frac{Crd \\; arc \\; 2 \\Theta E}{Crd \\; arc \\; 2AE}$$<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s go through the pieces:<\/p>\n<p>$Arc \\; ZB$ can be found by subtracting $90\u00ba &#8211; arc \\; AB$ since $arc \\; AZ$ is $90\u00ba$ by definition (since it&#8217;s a great circle to its pole).<\/p>\n<p>But what is $arc \\; AB$? It&#8217;s the latitude of the observer or, as Ptolemy puts it, the &#8220;elevation of the pole&#8221;<span id='easy-footnote-1-3932' class='easy-footnote-margin-adjust'><\/span><span class='easy-footnote'><a href='https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/2023\/04\/almagest-book-viii-on-simultaneous-risings-settings-of-the-fixed-stars\/#easy-footnote-bottom-1-3932' title='This is fairly easy to see if you consider the opposite side between $D$ and the unmarked north celestial pole. This is clearly the elevation of the pole, as Ptolemy describes, and $arc \\; AB$ is merely its reflection across the sphere.'><sup>1<\/sup><\/a><\/span>.<\/p>\n<p>For $arc \\; ZH$, this is again, $90\u00ba &#8211; arc \\; \\Theta H$.<\/p>\n<p>Where does $arc \\; \\Theta H$ come from? Ptolemy tells us that we can get this from the calculations we did in the previous post in which we looked at the simultaneous culmination. While $H$ won&#8217;t be on the horizon in that case, it does maintain its position relative to the celestial equator, and thus its value will be unchanged between these two scenarios.<\/p>\n<p>Lastly, we have $arc \\; AE$ which is $90\u00ba$ since it&#8217;s between a point on the horizon and a point on the meridian.<\/p>\n<p>Thus, we have everything we need to solve for the missing piece, $arc \\; \\Theta E$, recalling that $\\Theta$, in this diagram, is the Right Ascension of the star in question. Since that is a known quantity<span id='easy-footnote-2-3932' class='easy-footnote-margin-adjust'><\/span><span class='easy-footnote'><a href='https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/2023\/04\/almagest-book-viii-on-simultaneous-risings-settings-of-the-fixed-stars\/#easy-footnote-bottom-2-3932' title='I.e., it could be converted to from the equatorial coordinates which we certainly have.'><sup>2<\/sup><\/a><\/span>, we could then figure out where $E$ lies along the celestial equator.<\/p>\n<p>You may notice that we never actually used point $K$ in this situation. Well, that one comes in to play if we were to consider the simultaneous setting. As Ptolemy puts it,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>For the simultaneous settings, too, it can easily be seen that if we cut off an arc, $\\Theta K$, in advance of $\\Theta$ equal to $arc \\; Theta E$, the star will set together with point $K$ of the equator. For in that situation the setting takes place on an arc [of the horizon measured from the meridian] equal to $arc \\; BH$, and cuts off an angle in advance of the meridian equal to that enclosed to the rear [of it] by $arc \\; AZ$ and $arc \\; Z \\Theta$ in the present situation.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In other words, the rising point on the horizon will trail the Right Ascension of the star where as the setting point will precede it in a symmetrical manner. This is quite easy to see if I just let the sphere rotate and carry the star around to the other horizon:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-3.jpg?ssl=1\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3944\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-3.jpg?resize=300%2C288&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"288\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-3.jpg?resize=300%2C288&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-3.jpg?resize=1024%2C984&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-3.jpg?resize=768%2C738&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-3.jpg?resize=1536%2C1475&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/AlmagestFig-8.2-3.jpg?resize=2048%2C1967&amp;ssl=1 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Here, we can clearly see that $K$ is the point on the celestial equator that hits the horizon simultaneously with the star.<\/p>\n<p>But what about the point of the ecliptic that rises and sets with the star?<\/p>\n<p>For that, Ptolemy tells us that<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>from the arcs of the equator and ecliptic which rise and set together, which we have computed for each clima [<a href=\"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/2018\/12\/rising-time-of-the-ecliptic-tables\/\">II.8<\/a>], there will immediately be given that point on the ecliptic which rises together with point $E$ of the equator and the star, and that point which sets together with point $K$ and the star.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>In other words, once we know the arc of the celestial equator, we can use the rising time table to determine the related section of the ecliptic.<\/p>\n<p>Lastly, Ptolemy states,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>It is clear that, at the moment when the sun is exactly in those points of the ecliptic, there will come to pass the risings, culminations, and settings of the fixed star [in question] taken with respect to the sun&#8217;s centre which are called &#8216;true simultaneous cardinal positions.&#8217;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This is really more of a definition than anything else, but is how Ptolemy ends Chapter $5$.<\/p>\n<p>In the next post, we&#8217;ll follow along as Ptolemy explores the first and list visibilities of a given star.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Almagest-Progress-20230422.png?ssl=1\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3945\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Almagest-Progress-20230422.png?resize=300%2C131&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"300\" height=\"131\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Almagest-Progress-20230422.png?resize=300%2C131&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Almagest-Progress-20230422.png?resize=1024%2C448&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Almagest-Progress-20230422.png?resize=768%2C336&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Almagest-Progress-20230422.png?resize=1536%2C672&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Almagest-Progress-20230422.png?w=1912&amp;ssl=1 1912w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the last post, we looked at how Menelaus&#8217; theorem could be used to tell us which point on the ecliptic would culminate with a star. In this post, we&#8217;ll do something similar, but instead look at the points on the equator and ecliptic which rise or set simultaneously with a fixed star.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[24],"tags":[25,64,14],"class_list":["post-3932","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-almagest","tag-almagest","tag-fixed-stars","tag-ptolemy"],"acf":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p9ZpvC-11q","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3932","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3932"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3932\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3947,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3932\/revisions\/3947"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3932"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3932"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jonvoisey.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3932"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}